Mod Post: Texts from Last Night (and other issues)

[1800]

I was going to put this discussion a week later but a suugestion was made about TFLN so I wanted to ask your opinions now. This post is not only for TFLN talk, however. You can raise other issues, too.


Someone asked if we could have two TFLNs posted at the same time in order to avoid captcha and having to link threads to another post. I don't think it's a bad idea. Lately TFLN has filled up quite quickly and while captcha is not the end of the world, is there really any point in waiting for the overflow? If you need to post it anyway, why not do it right away?


How annoyed are you about captcha? Do your threads get dropped because of it? I've noticed some of you are linking to overflow posts in your own journals, which seems to mean you want to avoid captcha.


There are a few options we could consider. First, as suggested, two posts are made at the same time but people should wait to start using the second one until the first one has 2500 comments.

Would players wait for that? I don't know. Nobody has time to police it anyway. Should we just let everyone decide which post to use?

Or would it be wiser to have one post up at, say, midday UTC and the second one at midnight, regardless of how many comments are already in the first one? This would solve the problem with alternating posting times each week.

If there are two posts up at the same time, would it be enough that only the first one has the image?

Anything else you want to say about TFLN?

Comments

[omegaverselovingsock]

I like the first idea for TFLN best, and I think letting everyone decide which post to use is a good idea. That all seems like the simplest option for solving the TFLN captcha issue.

[toastysocks]

I wouldn't mind seeing two TFLNs go up at once, with the overflow one's comments disabled until captcha has been reached for the first, but I see two issues:

1. The first one just doesn't reach captcha
2. The first poster to get both TFLNs posted up could just fuck off and forget/rl keeps them from enabling comments on #2

The system we have now seems to work just fine, imho, as a regular poster of TFLN myself.

ETA: also (this is just imho again) I feel that letting people use both once 2500 comments are reached vs waiting for captcha doesn't make a lot of sense. ymmv, of course.

[polkadot_socks]

I don't regularly post on TLFN because my posts get buried because I am just not quick enough. Two posts would be fine by me. I figure people won't wait to post to the second one, so if that is what is wanted. I think scheduled would work better for everyone but that is just my opinion.

[khaleesock]

on the subject of tfln: captcha doesn't actually bother me, but if you're going the route of two tfln memes up at once, here's what i think would work best: don't let people use the second one until the first one hits captcha. seriously. spreading it out over two memes when there's still 2,500 comments left until captcha on the first one is pointless. you can put it on the honor system for all i care, but spreading it out for no reason isn't going to fix anything.

alternatively, keep it the way it is. people can make overflow posts on their journals or make an overflow tfln. i really haven't seen it being a big issue for anyone, personally. even top-leveling very late into the meme i've had no trouble getting tag-ins, either.

on another note: i'd like to echo some of the sentiments from the previous discussion post on moderated posting or stricter posting rules. the constant posting of unpopular memes does nothing but push the others off the page, which means memes that people actually use get a much shorter lifespan.

for example, look at the interspecies love/smut memes (since they're so similar, i'll be lumping them together). posted feb 4th with 18 comments, feb 13th with 33 comments, and feb 20th with 35 comments. people obviously aren't using this meme, but it's getting posted 3 times a month. i won't go on, but suffice it to say it's a common issue.

i don't think you need moderated posting for this, especially since the weekly meme round ups make it so easy to find if your meme was recently posted, but i would really appreciate a set-in-stone rule about this. personally, i'd like to keep the less popular/niche memes (say, ones that never get over 50 comments) to once a month, but i understand that may be an unpopular opinion, so i'm fine with deferring to the mods on that.

+1

[toastysocks]

Just wanted to say I agree with all of this, and thank you for putting it better than I could.

re: unpopular memes

[omegaverselovingsock]

I think it might be difficult for memeposters to find out which memes never get over 50 comments. Like, finding out if a meme got less than 50 comments the last time it was posted - depending on when exactly that was - might be easy but finding out if, in its entire lifetime on bakerstreet, a meme got less 50 comments seems like it would be much more difficult. Like, I would need a list or something to keep that straight, and it would make it harder for me to do memeposting.

[dryerfood]

I agree about the re-posting of unpopular memes. Maybe each month, if they don't reach a certain number of comments, limit them to being posted twice the following month. Then, if they still aren't popular enough, once a month?

That might be too much work for a meme comm, though. Especially since it's just for fun!

[blossomparty]

One way I think that will make it easier to find out if a meme has been posted before and is unpopular will be to do away with the flavor text in subjects all together.

As in, subject of post = actual name of the post. If it's an interspecies smut meme then the subject should reflect that. This way, meme posters can just go to the calendar and ctrl-f the heck out of it.

[1800]

What do you mean by honor system?

And a more important question is: if you feel that captcha is not a problem, do you think we shouldn't have an overflow post at all? Why would we have it just for those who come late to the party? That's what it boils down to really.

[omggirlonthenet]

As someone who's been on the receiving end of dropped threads due to captcha (with or without the overflow post going up) I don't know that there is a 'solution'.

The recent clarification that anyone can post the overflow if the original hits captcha within 24 hours is good, so I'd say see how that goes, at least for a few weeks.

Though personally, I would even go so far as to say 48 hours, because I know sometimes when it goes up late on Friday it still hits captcha by Saturday evening, which is outside the 24 hour period (if only by a few hours) and so an overflow doesn't go up even when it reasonably could.

[youandmeme]

+1 on the fact that the clarification that anyone can post tfln overflow is very helpful. Possibly it was a re-clarification, maybe I'd missed an earlier mention, but I think just having clarified that recently may help solve the problem presented here. Now that overflows will be posted more diligently, those that want to stick on bakerstreet for tagging/who aren't in games and do most of their rp here/etc can do so more easily. For those that drop when it hits captcha normally...they can also keep doing that.

I think a clarified overflow rule will also help with the timezone/posting time issue. If we're going to make it so hitting captcha within 24 hours always means an overflow can get posted, should this mean we can now always post it at the "early" timeslot, since no one is missing out? Continuing this person's point, would a 48 hour rule be alright, or too difficult to enforce? I'm fine with either. I think that this meme is pretty clearly popular, so re-posting it when it hits captcha isn't exactly clogging up bakerstreet with unused memes, it's just making sure everyone who wanted to can post.

So in summary: seconding overall the idea of just posting overflow when it hits captcha, happy with extending that overflow time period to 48 hours if that makes sense to other people. For several reasons, I think posting two posts at once might make things too tedious/confusing for people who just come in casually and aren't going to read through all the rules. OTOH I'm not heavily opposed to it - just that my initial thoughts are that overflow posted when it hits captcha should be enough.

[1800]

I don't have time to reply to everyone else right now but I'd like a clafication of the '48 hour rule'. Maybe there's a brilliant idea behind it but I don't get it. If TFLN hits captcha in 24 hours, why would we wait another 24 hours to put an overflow? There's going to be another texting meme at that point anyway.

Doesn't that take away the whole idea of avoiding captcha?

I also apologize that it hasn't been clear that anyone can post overflow. It's always been like that. I think it would be unreasonable to assume that the original meme poster is always online to do it. It seems my wording has been too vague. I'm sorry about that.

[1800]

Same question for you than for others: why wait until captcha if we can go around it and have two posts up at the same time? I feel like an overflow is redundant if it only helps those who don't post to the first TFLN.

[prosetintedglasses]

It's an interesting idea, but it makes me wonder how confusing it would be to the more casual users? I wonder if it would risk some notable amount of people not getting as much traction because now the boat of TFLN post is getting split in two; will everyone be checking both posts for top levels? It's arguable that a person will be scrolling through the same amount of top levels, just across two posts, but it's like having a party, but moving half of the snacks to another room. People sitting in one room might not feel like getting up and going into another room. If this analogy at all makes sense? I worry it would confuse the general populace, that it might encourage the phenomenon of people posting getting missed, and now we will be having to eyeball the comment count of two posts, instead of one.

That said, if that's something you test or implement? I will work with it and adhere to the process, because it's a fun thing and I don't want to miss out or miss potential new people. I just don't know that it's an amount of work that everyone will do, or that will be kept consistent! Hey, if it ends up working, cool, that will solve a fair amount of concern. I've been utilizing the day-after overflows quite a bit recently and I've found one week to interact with people that were pleasant surprises who I've never seen around and were clearly tagging in because it was convenient for their time zone at the time, and otherwise, wouldn't have tagged in. Then again, the overflow post gets maybe a couple hundred comments (though still vastly more than the average post for memes these days.) The only possible thing I can offer into the ring is "maybe a TFLN post within 24 hours despite captcha" for the people who went to bed when it went up, to get a new slate and some wiggle room. but then, that could be a dumb idea that requires just as much "more work" (someone having to come in a day later to post it again) and could also feel redundant with Sunday texting just on the horizon.

Not actual criticisms, just thoughts! I'd be excited to try any new system to be honest, and it doesn't hurt to try a thing once (or a couple times, as some weekends tend to be busier on bakerstreet than others!)

[11thdoctor]

I don't think checking two posts can be that big of an issue, if someone isn't willing to check two posts for threads, then my guess is they're also not willing to check 20 pages or use captcha.

Maybe it will be confusing at first, but give it a few weeks and people will get used to it.

[omegaverselovingsock]

I’m wondering what happens when people link to multiple off-comm memes at once. Like, does it mean that none of those memes can be posted on bakerstreet for a week, or are they exempted because they are off-comm and a lot were posted at once?

I’m guessing it is the former but I’m not sure.

And basically, I’m worried about what taking multiple memes out of circulation for a week by posting them off-comm and linking them here might do. Like, if they were a few more meme comms than there right now, I could imagine that leaving bakerstreet with barely any on-comm memes at all.

And it seems like way to get around the “post one meme per journal on bakerstreet a day” rule.

[thesearchforsock]

The last couple of these have also been breaking TLH's rules about spacing memes out.

OP of the original idea.

[11thdoctor]

Okay, so I feel my original idea needs some clarification!

The thing I thought we could do was post two TFLN posts at the same time, so they sit together on the front page of Bakerstreet. (Easy access, more clean.)

Then it would be a rule (which should be mentioned on the post) that if the first post hits 2500 comments, no more top levels can be made on that post, but should be made on the other one. That way both posts still have plenty of room for the comments. (Since no more new top levels will be made, there will be less active threads, so the captcha quota won't get filled up quite as fast.)

My reasoning behind this? As soon as tfln hits captcha, less people are inclined to start new threads. I believe a lot of top levels on the later pages are being ignored because of this fact. I'm sure the threads already going are still being used despite captcha, but it's the new ones people might not feel like starting.

I also saw someone mention they think people won't check both posts? I don't see why that would have to be an issue, if someone isn't willing to check two posts for threads, then my guess is they're also not willing to check 20 pages or use captcha.

[1800]

You know, I took your comment to mean exactly that: after 2500 comments, no more top levels. I'm glad you pointed it out here since I didn't mention it.

It's really easy to see as well, when you scroll the comm.

[sockiness]

Coming from someone that doesn't play on TFLN (so keep that in mind), I honestly don't see the problem with keeping things as they are. Captcha is going to happen, captcha has always been happening, and the world has managed to go on with captcha in it. TFLN is notably a cracky meme, so I'm just having a hard time trying to pin why people are suddenly so devastated about 'dropped threads'. It's a meme you're guaranteed to get play in every week. If someone is that interested in carrying on a TFLN meme, posting a 'carry over' post or something like that in a musebox or your character's journal is an easy way to get around captcha. Threads get dropped all over this comm, so I'm not really understanding why one meme gets so much preferential treatment over all the others. It's the only meme with an overflow post allowed (granted that's because of activity, but it's still technically breaking the comm rules), and that's been happening for a while. It's going to be up the next week. You CAN continue the thread if you want to take it somewhere else. There's literally no rule against that. In the next texting meme after tfln, you can always have a 'continued from-' link that drags your tfln post over, just to play there. Be creative?

I'm also chiming in with the above anon re: the multiple crossposts. Possibly an unpopular suggestion here, but how about we keep the crossposting to specific memes only? Fort anon has specific anon meme types that Bakerstreet can't have because of lack of anon posting. TLH used to have TLH specific memes, like the Breeding meme or the Stable meme or one that specifically focused around the hotel concept itself. Now, it seems like people are using it to skirt around the 1 post per journal per day meme, while also taking multiple memes out of circulation from being hosted on the comm. TLH also has players that are banned on Bakerstreet that play there, and one of the reasons I play on Bakerstreet is to avoid them. If a meme I've been waiting for gets crossposted to TLH, I either have to wait until it's available to post here again (which I might miss if someone TLH scoops it again), or take the risk that someone I'm actively avoiding might hit me up. If I wanted to play on TLH, I would, but I don't like the idea of being herded over there because someone's trying to skirt the 'not allowed on Bakerstreet' rule.

I was here during the attempt at moderated posting queue and it was not very effective. The only thing I can suggest there is that people actually look at the comm's first two pages before they post something. A lot of the problem with flooding of similar meme types is that certain posters just ignore what's already up or feel that they can't get the play they want in x meme and they want y meme instead, or they just don't like that the meme they want is 'too old' (read: halfway down the page/on the next page) and they want to play their thing now. Some people just want the instant gratification, and unfortunately, their type ruins it for everyone else. But either it's an open public hub that everyone can come to, or it's not. All you can do is just maybe go over the rules you guys have written and see if streamlining or adding any will help. Start banning accounts that are frequently asked to not do x thing. Maybe have a 'memes you'd like to see' post up once every month or so. There can be discussion there as to what meme types people would like with maybe a check in as to who would tag in them? No point in someone making a new meme and it being a ghost town that's added into the revolution of overdone, unplayed memes.

Perhaps throwing up a 'these memes can not be posted until next month' idea might also help. If you have someone willing to go through the memes that don't get play and see that it's been like that for at least the last 2-3 months, then maybe those have to sit on the bench for a bit.

[prosetintedglasses]

On one hand, not everyone posts to tfln every single week, it's just a weekly-reliable meme and unquestionably the most successful one in the week. It's going to attract its own user base by that gravitational pull alone! Not everyone has the weekend free, I'm one of them, as I don't have weekends due to my job, so I'm not going to be able to post every week, but when I do, I'm eager to mingle with the most active piece of bakerstreet.

Secondly, while it is considered a crack-y meme, myself and a significant bulk of my rp buds get a lot of really good long form threads out of tfln as a launching point, or boost CR with easy conversations between characters. I am completely serious. It's not purely people going "lols so drunk wowww" for a night, and sure, the majority of tags are letting-loose shenangigans, but even then it can be a nice reprieve from doing heavier tags for a night, or just the fun of quick pinged IC conversations without having to scene build too much. It's a great way to exercise the voice as opposed to narrative skill. This isn't the issue at hand but it surprises me how this meme gets a bad rep when most of the user base here uses it; but if it's not for you, then it's not for you, but it makes plenty of other users pretty happy for content. It really is all about how you use it. But that is all besides the point; people are here to have fun. This place is literally to facilitate having fun, and making that as accessible as possible, and time zones versus difficulty with captcha can hinder that sometimes. (It's definitely fallible, it doesn't accept correct answers just often enough to be a headache, additionally people can and do just have difficulty with that sort of thing cognitively which is really unfortunate and no one should have to be at a disadvantage for a free hobby for that.)

And I think the main idea behind this is less about people not willing to post an overflow for their own speciifc threads, but moreso letting the sheer amount of activity happen when the meme is immediately active. By Saturday-Sunday, it's been enough time that steam lets out and Gen Texts is approaching, anyway. I've tried to use Gen Texts as an overflow option and it doesn't net a lot of success in my personal experience. There is also time zone issues at play, at the root of this issue. There is a lot of factors at play here, and it's not strictly about laziness and captcha-dodging. Despite the "hmm" I had posted above, I think it's worth trying out two posts.

Just some two cents, free to take or leave, from an individual who uses tfln quite a lot when my free time allows.

[apologues]

In the vein of TFLN: Wish there was more focus across the board in bakerstreet on top-levels including an actual starter, rather than pages and pages and pages of empty top-levels. I know TFLN is super popular because it's easy rp, but I think the fact that every TFLN top-level has a starter for people to respond to may also have something to do with it. Bakerstreet has become extremely stale and habitual in how it operates imo, and I feel like it needs to be shoved out that rut somehow.

[apologues]

Also, re: Two posts for TFLN - maybe have one post for fandoms alphabetised from A - M to top-level with TFLN prompts, and the second post for fandoms N - Z? Idk if that would work, but that might be a possible way to approach it.

[crueltea]

This might come off mean, which isn't my intent, but other people not getting tags is less the fault of everyone else browsing TFLN and more the fault of the players top-leveling.

Players come to TFLN late all the time and still get tags. If you yourself aren't, then you need to take the step of tagging other people and showing that you're engaging to write with and worth the effort of being tagged. Try including a thread tracker in your character's journal so other players can see how you write, and be sure that your top level starters have plenty of hooks.

The unfortunate reality is sometimes it's just Occam's Razor at work here, and there's not a vastly complicated system at work that's not getting you (general You) the tags you feel you're owed. If tumblr rpers can cast their line into a void using just keywords to advertise and they still get play, it’s not an issue here of accessibility or people not reading through multiple pages.

Sometimes it just means people don't want to tag you.

And what happens if the mods enact these additionally, needlessly complicated rules and the same people still aren't getting tagged? Begging for a rule where everyone who didn't get tagged last post gets to post first or something?

[sockrockband]

You know, I honestly don't know if that would help, except for OCs, which in that case it's pretty necessary. And in the case of obscure/older canons, I'd say helps.

As someone who has a spectrum of characters from canons new and old, and with journals with detailed information to journals with none, I can tell you it really doesn't matter how much information you put, it's the popularity of the canon and/or character doing the top level that gets the tags.

I do agree that those who top level need to tag around more, or at least more obviously because I get do get more play if I'm the one who responds to top levels, to the point that I don't top level as much anymore. Because I take that first step, whereas a lot of people might feel anxious about taking that first step of initiating contact with new people, especially with characters they unfamiliar with.

[thesockshaveit]

I thought apologues had a really good idea above, about splitting TFLN into two posts: one for fandoms starting with A-M and one with N-Z. It also makes searching for characters to tag easier and (I think) eliminates the issue of "will people check both posts?" because they'll know where the split in what they'll find on each post lies. I don't know if that divide will be even fandom wise, but it's something that can be tweaked after a couple of weeks as it shakes out.

The other thing I was thinking (and I have no clue if this would work, if people would be responsive, if TFLN gets so many posts because it's posted on a Friday, etc.) but I know that there's a one week rule before posting the same meme again. But for something as popular as this meme, would there be any benefit to having (for example) a Friday morning TFLN and a Monday night TFLN post? Or something similar?

[1800]

"would there be any benefit to having (for example) a Friday morning TFLN and a Monday night TFLN post? Or something similar?"

I think it's something people wait to do over the weekend (although not everyone is available then either). Spreading it out like that when there are other texting memes also... um, maybe not, but thank you for your suggestion.

[bronnssock]

I made most of my thoughts known here. I think it's just a matter of some people are going to end up being unsatisfied no matter what because what I see people complaining about the most has less to do with the meme and more about the players posting to it.

(Or it's the fact it gets posted too early a lot of times and people on the west coast get screwed over the most in terms of being late to the meme already at 3k or 4k comments before they can even post to it.)

Aside from all of that, overcomplicating the posting of tfln isn't going to resolve much of anything. Keep it simple and players will do what they do.

[1800]

Update: I'm replying to some of the easiest comments first, so if someone is not getting a reply now, it doesn't mean I'm completely skipping over their opinion.

Thank you for everyone who's commented so far!

I forgot that we planned to have this discussion in the mods' journal so people could comment anonymously. Next time, then.

[sockodile]

unrelated to tfln, but would it be possible to make the weekly meme roundup a sticky post? i realize we can just check the tag, but having it at the top of the page might make it more visible.

[1800]

What do you mean by sticky in this case? Like, updating the same post with new memes? Then you'd lose what was posted before.

[fukuda]

How about making it so that the overflow can go up when the original post hits 4k comments? It's close enough to captcha that it shouldn't be an issue, but far enough from it that it gives people some space to decide what they want to do about threads from it.

[1800]

Apologies for replying so very late. I would be fine with that but it wouldn't really change much. It wouldn't save anyone from captcha or moving to an overflow post or to their own journals. So it's just as well to wait until the original TFLN hits 5000 comments.

Looking at the latest, the original now has almost 6000 and the overflow almost 900 comments. So altogether 7000. Same thing the previous week.

Some liked the idea of having two posts, but good points were made about keeping things as they are, too.