the only one who can fuck me is me.

[liltuna]

would you fuck your clone? a crack meme for pondering the impossible...   A question as old as time, or at least as old as Buzzfeed. How many intellectuals over the years have pondered the very same question you're being faced with now? Did Socrates wonder about the moral quandaries that accompany clone sex? Did Plato? Does a dilemma so complex have a right answer? If so, does your character know it?    how to play 1. Your character has been posed the question, 'Would you fuck your clone?' Top-levels should be responses to this question. Blank top-levels will be deleted. 2. Chat around with others and debate over the ethics of engaging your hypothetical clone in such a way.

Comments

[theotherobin]

Well yeah, but that doesn't mean you're not doing it for the wrong reason.

[ hey man, you said you wanted to talk. give all the fucking details then. ]

Sure. Honesty.

And if all that trying leads to fucking him up in the end anyway, then what?

[reformedzombiecrimelord]

What's wrong about saying "I love you" when you mean it? Or saying "I love you too" when you mean it?

[Give all the details like you, then? It's not an all or nothing proposition, rude little shit.]

I suppose... if he wanted me to leave, I'd leave. And if he wanted me to stay and help him fix things, then I'd stay.

[theotherobin]

Cause you said you say it cause you need to hear it back. That's fucking different.

[hey, he's not the one who said he can be all open and shit. THAT'S the point he was making earlier. let it bite you in the ass now.]

That wasn't really my question though, was it.

[reformedzombiecrimelord]

You said "then what". I answered about what comes after.

If you meant something else, then clarify.

[You really think you're doing something here, huh Jason? What does winning in this context even get you? Some stupidass sense of superiority?]

[theotherobin]

[ he's not trying to do something here and he's not trying to win. it's a legitimate question that seems to be flying over this dude's head because he thinks it's about doing something or winning.

apparently older Jason isn't wiser after all. ]

I dunno how much more I can black and white this. Seems like you'd just keep on fucking him up just so you can have some validation. I dunno, man. That's some shady shit to me, that's all I'm saying.

But I guess whatever works. If your guy knows what's up and signed up for this, then... that's great. More power to you both.

[reformedzombiecrimelord]

[The propensity for the worst case interpretation (no matter what) has just fully thrown Jay off. But at the end of the day, it doesn't matter what conclusion some alternate universe version of himself has drawn from partial information. It doesn't really matter if Jay can't communicate with him, as long as the people who Jay has to live with know what's going on.]

[He just shrugs, and doesn't say anything else in reply. Saying things has gotten them here.]

[theotherobin]

[ not a very active participant in a conversation then, huh. especially with a younger version of himself who could probably use some help.

then again, it makes sense. they're better at loose ends and fucking people up, rather than stepping in to help when they can. Jason's a teenager so at least he has a little bit of an excuse. this older Jason, well... maybe his excuse is that he's Jason Todd, and they're fucking trash in all universes.

or maybe this older Jason realizes that there's some logic and truth to his words. not that that's a good thing. real is better than good, though.]

My bad. I know the realization sucks. Even more when someone else calls it out. I punch people all the time. You probably do too, so you know how much it helps.

[reformedzombiecrimelord]

Not when you punch the wrong people.

[It was mentioned in passing earlier in the conversation, but this Jason is brain damaged. By definition, his brain doesn't work normally. Poor impulse control and emotional regulation are the major signs of it -- not that his alternate should know that, just... it's a fact. So, indeed, older is not wiser when older has a TBI.]

Anyway. Eds has friends who look out for him. I'd never isolate us so it was only me and him.

It's not like I want to be bad to him, but my brain damage can make it hard for me to make the right choices. Which is a fact I have to live with, and why I have doctors.

[theotherobin]

I don't punch the wrong people.

[ maybe he will in the future, but even then it won't be about the punching. it'll be about all the shit in his head even before the brain damage. he's already got those things. ]

All I've got is myself. I don't think... I mean. The people I date don't really have friends either, so I dunno how that would go.

What kinda doctors?

[reformedzombiecrimelord]

Hmm. Might be a good idea to get some friends. Even just... bein' cordial with people in... the same line of work. Social network, more folks to notice if things are off. [Another shrug.] Maybe you don't need it, but it's a thought. If isolation is a problem.

Mm, neurologists, mostly. Keepin' an eye on the actual brain function. Eds goes to a therapist for his own stuff.

[theotherobin]

Oh yeah sure, I'll just go get some friends along with a six pack of beer at the corner store.

[if only it was that easy.]

I've always been on my own. Haven't you?

You don't go to a therapist?

[reformedzombiecrimelord]

Shockingly, the less of an asshole you are, the more willing people are to be friendly.

Even just allies work.

[Jay shakes his head.] Counselor for short term stuff works. I've got... an alternate ID for getting healthcare.

[theotherobin]

I'm not an asshole, dickhead.

Bruce is an ally.

I've got an alternate ID for beer. And counselors probably suck even more than therapists.

[reformedzombiecrimelord]

['Everything a Goddamn Ordeal in Area Family' pops into Jay's head because of the way his alternate has to argue about every single thing that comes out of Jay's mouth.]

Failsafes. Fallbacks. Redundancy. [Jay scratches at the back of his neck, to ground himself and keep from snapping too sharply.] Shouldn't put all your eggs in one basket, even a rich guy's basket.

Not just a fake ID card. I'm legally dead. So it doesn't matter what stories I tell if I use different names for everyone. Oracle set it all up.

[theotherobin]

Been fine all my life on my own. Doesn't gotta change now.

[his eggs are definitely not all in Bruce's basket, but right now it's the best thing he's got going for him.]

Legally dead? How'd you fucking manage that, huh? Oracle the computer?

[reformedzombiecrimelord]

I thought we were talking about being in a relationship? [Jay sounds genuinely lost, unsure if he's lost the thread of the conversation.] By definition, being in a relationship isn't 'on your own'. But it, like, can't just be the two of you, because that's codependent... and codependent isn't healthy. It's better for each person to have their own friends. A safety net.

[He ignores the other questions -- how did he manage becoming legally dead? why, by actually dying! -- in favor of trying to figure out if they're even talking about the same things anymore.]

[theotherobin]

Thought we were talking about having friends. My bad. I mean, I'm not in a relationship anyway so I guess it doesn't matter.

Hope yours works out, though.

[reformedzombiecrimelord]

Oh. Sorry.

I... guess I got confused.

[theotherobin]

It's cool, man. I was probably just talking shit anyway.

At least we can look at it this way: One version of me has good relationships.

[reformedzombiecrimelord]

It's not always easy. Being in a relationship, or a friendship. People misunderstand, they don't say things right, wires get crossed. I had to learn... and it wasn't easy.

Even if... I don't have any good guidance for you. [He offers Jason a small, sheepish kind of smile after admitting his own limitations.] Getting it right is worth all the difficulty. Just... maybe reminding yourself of that will help, when it feels really frustrating to have friends.

[theotherobin]

It's always me doing all that shit. It's always me.

What was it like when you were eighteen?

[reformedzombiecrimelord]

But it isn't always only you. Sometimes it's them, too.

[Jay drops his gaze to the ground when Jason asks that question.] I died just before my sixteenth birthday. The next thing I remember is being pulled out of a Lazarus Pit by Talia.... Talia al-Ghul. When I was eighteen... I was trying to take over Gotham City by controlling the criminal underground through the gun and drug trade.

[theotherobin]

Doesn't feel that way.

...You died? Like for real died? Is that what happened to your head?

[ all that bravado is falling away now, because, well. that's not something anyone wants to hear. but also realistically he's always known that he would probably die way before his time. there are a lot of differences in their lives, sure. but death is there, he can feel it. ]

You didn't go back to being Robin?

[that part feels pretty fucking devastating, too.]

[reformedzombiecrimelord]

[Jay smiles wryly and imitates the Batman growl when he replies,] "Feelings aren't facts."

[But any lighthearted vibe to the conversation fades with the next round of questions. Jay closes his eyes briefly and nods, then reopens them and says quietly,] Yes. I died for real. I was beaten to death and I remember hearing my skull crack.

I couldn't. Everyone thought I was dead.

There... there was a new Robin already, by the time I was... alive again, and back to myself. And I... I got angry.

[theotherobin]

[Jason has to give the smallest snort at that. ok, so this guy really does know Bruce. for some reason that was never really a question, though.

this next part... it curls inside of him in a bad way. the first part is bad, but the second part is somehow worse, and he can already feel his sadness coiling into anger. probably a similar kind of anger that Jay felt.]

That would never happen to me. I'd never let that shit happen.