tfln

[trashtalker]

wayback machine tfln or tfln if it's up

Comments

[counterstep]

hiccup the dragon boy? haven't heard of it ( ...he thinks that's the title. )
sure if you think it's worth sharing

( it helps with his ability to understand what everyone else around him likes. )

I think it's actually cause we don't think think about breathing
usually
if you start thinking about it, you will, but otherwise you don't, so it's somehow keeping track?? while you're not keeping track??? brains are so weird

[so_many_pockets]

It is definitely worth sharing. Especially the first one. [It is the title now, she will never call it anything else.]

I guess that makes sense. Except brains are also very weird about things we do think think about, soooo... who knows. Weird all around.

[counterstep]

okay
put it down for the next movie night we can watch hiccup the dragon boy ( the movie that is named that and definitely not how to train your dragon. )

very weird in which way? for the think think I mean

[so_many_pockets]

Excellent.
I'm going to find some type of dragon themed snack for it.
[By which she likely means 'covered in or full of hot sauce.']

For instance... not to get all dark but, you know, some of the negative things I think of myself are rooted in reality and my history and all of that, but some of them are just stupid off-shoots of other things that aren't even true. Like thinking I am useless or something, logically and functionally, that is just plain inaccurate, and I know it. But still, the brain... trots it out like a party trick.

[counterstep]

I worry for what this means

( yeah, spicy ain't working for this guy who grew up with barely anything spicy... )

they're the easiest explanations, I think
not logical but easy
so the brain connects them with the smallest bit of evidence and just runs with it
I dunno if I've really had thoughts like that though since mine are usually tied to a lot of other thoughts that feel logical

[so_many_pockets]

Don't be ridiculous, I will make sure there is something for everyone.
[Because that comment made her think about it, but it counts.]

I can see that being the case.
Still sucks. We are not training for a race, my brain can stop running with things so often.

[counterstep]

( we're all growing, here. )

I'd appreciate it

yeah not sure why brains are wired to try and figure things out as quickly as possible? cause there's definitely times where you're just supposed to take your time
I don't think they naturally understand what it means to "take your time"

[so_many_pockets]

I already promised I would not come back from the grocery store with only hot sauce again.

Mm. I agree.
And our brains in particular I think doubly do not understand what it means to take your time.

[counterstep]

yeah but hot sauce and ice cream is also not?? a great purchase????

the training is hard to break, yes
I'm relieved the others don't have to deal with it though

[so_many_pockets]

That is just your opinion, man. They went very well together.

You think the others don't have trouble taking their time?

[counterstep]

they really did not...

no I imagine they probably do
we've all been working nonstop
we're the only ones that received torture induced training though

[so_many_pockets]

Agree to disagree.

Ah. Yes.
Although I think Ava might be able to relate to that particular tactic being used as well.

[counterstep]

I feel like her situation was more incidental than intentional, though

regardless, I just meant I'm glad there are people who haven't had to face torture
in general

[so_many_pockets]

How do you mean?

Yes, we can definitely agree on that.

[counterstep]

it was a result of dealing with the circumstances, not something thoroughly planned

[so_many_pockets]

I don't think I would count what SHIELD did to her as dealing with the circumstances or unplanned.

[counterstep]

I didn't say unplanned
no one knew she would became what she has because of that accident

but we are not the products of an accident

I'm not diminishing her experiences, but there's a pretty clear difference

[so_many_pockets]

She is not a what, and her ability might be the result of the accident, but she is not. We are all people, not products.

I do not think there is a clear difference. Accident before or no, she was taken by SHIELD as a young girl, forced into this type of life, isolated, experimented on, hurt, manipulated, used.

[counterstep]

I never called her an accident
I also said I was not diminishing her experiences
if you think I'm saying any of that, you're the one projecting that on to me

stop putting words in my mouth
I don't appreciate it

[so_many_pockets]

You said she became WHAT she has because of the accident, and you said 'we are not products of an accident' which directly implies that she is.
And saying you are not diminishing someone's experiences does not mean you are not.
If you take the accident out of her story, and the other widows in the red room out of mine, our childhoods are nearly note for note for a lot of it.

[counterstep]

I feel you're intentionally misrepresenting what I'm saying to create conflict, and I'm not interested in a one-sided conversation where you forcibly define me as someone I'm clearly not.

when you're ready to discuss things without presuming the worst or arguing in bad faith, then we can speak. until then, I'm done with this conversation.

[so_many_pockets]

Okay, well, I feel like you are failing to recognize the impact of your choice of words and that you are, unintentionally, discounting her experiences. Maybe you do not know many of the details, I don't know, but her story is much more similar to ours than it is different. I do not think it is unreasonable of me to be upset when people describe us, any of us, as products, no matter how well-meaning or neutral it may be intended. I agree, at least, that this conversation is best over.